Engineering,though not in 2 years should be done as "engineering". Atleast not like the way it is done here at iitm where you need to mug up whole lot of shit(esp in the kind of courses like id,bt,BIO-MECH...) and you need to keep guessing what exactly is it that the prof wants in our answer sheets(like in IC-engines) rather that worrying abt learning someting from the course.... I seriously feel that all the exams should be open book.
for the first time in three years i started feeling this semester that engineering isnt as bad as it was made out to be in my department. and now that female who 'teaches' us opsys tells us that she's not gonna give marks for those who did a problem using methods other than what was done in class. engineering... i feel proud to be in one of the top instis in the country.
The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost. You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one. You know if something is not in the text, it is not going to appear in the exam. It only helps lead towards a scenario where the exam is all.
If a teacher refuses to give marks for a solution that doesn't match the one given in class, perhaps the student needs to look beyond. Perhaps the teacher is merely incapable of understanding the solution, and for fear of public display of ignorance prefers to go by the tried and trusted technique of refusing marks. A different solution could be the start of a whole new approach, an idea.
'The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost. You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one. You know if something is not in the text, it is not going to appear in the exam.'
Why? Open book exams should have questions only from that book is it? And yes, going by your argument, if everything you wanted in an open book exam is there in the book, there's no trouble for anyone at all. And I've known killer open book exams. (For eg, try making Olympiad an open book and see if there's ANY difference)
'If a teacher refuses to give marks for a solution that doesn't match the one given in class, perhaps the student needs to look beyond.'
Beyond what? Where?
'Perhaps the teacher is merely incapable of understanding the solution, and for fear of public display of ignorance prefers to go by the tried and trusted technique of refusing marks.'
Or the teacher could be adamant, which is what the case is most of the times.
'A different solution could be the start of a whole new approach, an idea.'
As far as I have been at BITS,open book exams are tough. We had one in Quantum chemistry recently.The Av was 7 on 30 and I made a 5. (Av-2) and 12 ppl made Zukks. Open book exams are better to closed book ones atleast for this simple reason'I need not have to waste my time going early to the hall and fill the desks with a whole bunch of formulas :D
First, open book exams are by definition meant to be killer exams. The fact that they are open book implies what can be expected out of the students is off the scale.
Olympiad exams do not have a place in this discussion. The platform is different, and so are the stakes.
'Or the teacher is adamant' Exactly, precisely what I meant. The teacher adamantly sticks to her own methods, and is unwilling to even accept the existence of other forms of the solution, let alone mark them right.
'Why? Open book exams should have questions only from that book is it?' Not necessarily, but then the purpose of having it as an open book is lost. If by open book you mean open notes, that's different. What you have written down might include information from a variety of source, but if open book refers to a single textbook, the whole point of allowing that textbook is lost if what you are being tested upon is outside the scope of that book.
'Beyond what? Where?' By 'beyond' I basically meant pursuing the alternate solution to look for its implications, and just going with the teacher's method for the sake of the exam. After all, how long can one be tied down with the pressure of exams? Assuming that the teacher prefers the conventional way, perhaps your orthodox solution could be better applied to other questions, perhaps it's an insight into a question that hasn't been posed before.
Oh.. and sorry for posting anonymously. I know you, but it's not mutual. Of course, you could always employ technology to detect and confirm my identity, but I could use more of the same technology to cloak myself further.
@anao2:"The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost." what is it that u do in research??keep mugging things that u r sure u cannot remember for the rest of ur life!!!! To my knowledge,u do something like take up a new problem,gather all the available data until date,understand it and "use it" to solve ur problem.And now,if this is the case how does open book exams harm?? "You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one." if i can understand the concept underlying a phenomenon by just reading one book,y should i bother to read from multiple sources??if the source which i am following cannot satisfy me,i will automatically refer to other sources..
>what is it that u do in research??>keep mugging things that u r sure >u cannot remember for the rest of >ur life!!!! >To my knowledge,u do something >like take up a new problem,gather >all the available data until >date,understand it and "use it" to >solve ur problem.And now,if this >is the case how does open book >exams harm??
No no, I do not mean to imply that open book exams harm. All I meant was your statement "all the exams should be open book" is not necessarily the best solution.
Engineers all over the world are exposed to stuff that are seemingly unnecessarily, that are seemingly memorized and forgotten. There's nothing one can do about it.
And yes, your definition of research is right by any standards. My point is, with an open book exam, the topics for the exam are to be restricted to the contents of the textbook. And consequently, the need for reading anything outside the textbook is reduced.
>if i can understand the concept >underlying a phenomenon by just >reading one book,y should i bother >to read from multiple sources??if >the source which i am following >cannot satisfy me,i will >automatically refer to other >sources.. The problem is, by just reading one book, if you understand the concept, you only assume you have understood the concept. Only with multiple sources will your biases, and incorrect perceptions be revealed. Of course you could always agree that you could successfully live with your misconceptions, but again, the purpose of research is defeated.
"My point is, with an open book exam, the topics for the exam are to be restricted to the contents of the textbook"
No!
"The problem is, by just reading one book, if you understand the concept, you only assume you have understood the concept. Only with multiple sources will your biases, and incorrect perceptions be revealed."
One can only assume that he/she has understood the concept. And trust me, one good book many a times is enough. A Resnick is enough for JEE concepts, a Crandall is enough for SOM.
'No!' Well, you are right, but your 'no' should have been 'not necessarily', because if the questions are outside of the book, it doesn't make much sense to allow the book anyway, and in effect it becomes closed book, because you aren't going to be opening it in the first place.
That, and though I am surprised to hear you of all people say one book many times over is sufficient. But as you said, bah, I am not going to argue.
"Well, you are right, but your 'no' should have been 'not necessarily', because if the questions are outside of the book, it doesn't make much sense to allow the book anyway, and in effect it becomes closed book, because you aren't going to be opening it in the first place."
Not necessarily. :D For an open book exam, it is the syllabus that gets fixed. So I dont understand what you mean by 'outside the book'. The prof/teacher will NEVER tell you 'the questions are from THIS book', and then allow the same book! It is up to YOU to choose a book to take that suits your comfort in answering questions/problems. For all you know, if I were to sit in an open book exam, I might just carry a sheet with formulae on it.
And I never said one book is enough. I said one good book is enough. THere's a huge difference between the two.
Ooops.. big misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't realize by open book you meant the syllabus is fixed. Where I am (NTU) the syllabus is not what is fixed, the textbook is .. good call though. In that case, yes, perhaps nothing can substiute a good hand-compiled cheat sheet.
Yes.. in most cases, one good book thoroughly prepared should be more than enough. Indeed.
>>Where I am (NTU) the syllabus is not what is fixed, the textbook is .. er... how?? did you mean syllabus for an open-book test is not fixed, and teachers fix the book you can bring for it? or did you mean that for your whole semester?
We had an open-book, take-home, 3-day-long end-sem exam in one of our courses last semester. It was fun. BTW, some of the comments here seem to imply (or assume) that open-book means open-one-book. We even had a couple of open-library exams.
We both know they're going to come after us one day. One day we're going to be dead. The difference between you and me is that while you try to escape, I'll try to take as many of them with me as I can.
17 comments:
Which two? The first two? Or the last two?
Engineering,though not in 2 years should be done as "engineering". Atleast not like the way it is done here at iitm where you need to mug up whole lot of shit(esp in the kind of courses like id,bt,BIO-MECH...) and you need to keep guessing what exactly is it that the prof wants in our answer sheets(like in IC-engines) rather that worrying abt learning someting from the course....
I seriously feel that all the exams should be open book.
for the first time in three years i started feeling this semester that engineering isnt as bad as it was made out to be in my department. and now that female who 'teaches' us opsys tells us that she's not gonna give marks for those who did a problem using methods other than what was done in class.
engineering... i feel proud to be in one of the top instis in the country.
The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost. You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one. You know if something is not in the text, it is not going to appear in the exam. It only helps lead towards a scenario where the exam is all.
If a teacher refuses to give marks for a solution that doesn't match the one given in class, perhaps the student needs to look beyond. Perhaps the teacher is merely incapable of understanding the solution, and for fear of public display of ignorance prefers to go by the tried and trusted technique of refusing marks. A different solution could be the start of a whole new approach, an idea.
Anon2:
'The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost. You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one. You know if something is not in the text, it is not going to appear in the exam.'
Why? Open book exams should have questions only from that book is it?
And yes, going by your argument, if everything you wanted in an open book exam is there in the book, there's no trouble for anyone at all. And I've known killer open book exams. (For eg, try making Olympiad an open book and see if there's ANY difference)
'If a teacher refuses to give marks for a solution that doesn't match the one given in class, perhaps the student needs to look beyond.'
Beyond what? Where?
'Perhaps the teacher is merely incapable of understanding the solution, and for fear of public display of ignorance prefers to go by the tried and trusted technique of refusing marks.'
Or the teacher could be adamant, which is what the case is most of the times.
'A different solution could be the start of a whole new approach, an idea.'
Yes, but with zero marks.
As far as I have been at BITS,open book exams are tough.
We had one in Quantum chemistry recently.The Av was 7 on 30 and I made a 5. (Av-2) and 12 ppl made Zukks.
Open book exams are better to closed book ones atleast for this simple reason'I need not have to waste my time going early to the hall and fill the desks with a whole bunch of formulas :D
All the very best for ur quizzes :)
First, open book exams are by definition meant to be killer exams. The fact that they are open book implies what can be expected out of the students is off the scale.
Olympiad exams do not have a place in this discussion. The platform is different, and so are the stakes.
'Or the teacher is adamant'
Exactly, precisely what I meant. The teacher adamantly sticks to her own methods, and is unwilling to even accept the existence of other forms of the solution, let alone mark them right.
'Why? Open book exams should have questions only from that book is it?'
Not necessarily, but then the purpose of having it as an open book is lost. If by open book you mean open notes, that's different. What you have written down might include information from a variety of source, but if open book refers to a single textbook, the whole point of allowing that textbook is lost if what you are being tested upon is outside the scope of that book.
'Beyond what? Where?'
By 'beyond' I basically meant pursuing the alternate solution to look for its implications, and just going with the teacher's method for the sake of the exam. After all, how long can one be tied down with the pressure of exams? Assuming that the teacher prefers the conventional way, perhaps your orthodox solution could be better applied to other questions, perhaps it's an insight into a question that hasn't been posed before.
Oh.. and sorry for posting anonymously. I know you, but it's not mutual. Of course, you could always employ technology to detect and confirm my identity, but I could use more of the same technology to cloak myself further.
@anao2:"The single biggest problem having an open book exam is that the whole fun behind research is lost."
what is it that u do in research??keep mugging things that u r sure u cannot remember for the rest of ur life!!!!
To my knowledge,u do something like take up a new problem,gather all the available data until date,understand it and "use it" to solve ur problem.And now,if this is the case how does open book exams harm??
"You are no longer motivated to read from multiple sources, and instead stick to one."
if i can understand the concept underlying a phenomenon by just reading one book,y should i bother to read from multiple sources??if the source which i am following cannot satisfy me,i will automatically refer to other sources..
>what is it that u do in research??>keep mugging things that u r sure >u cannot remember for the rest of >ur life!!!!
>To my knowledge,u do something >like take up a new problem,gather >all the available data until >date,understand it and "use it" to >solve ur problem.And now,if this >is the case how does open book >exams harm??
No no, I do not mean to imply that open book exams harm. All I meant was your statement "all the exams should be open book" is not necessarily the best solution.
Engineers all over the world are exposed to stuff that are seemingly unnecessarily, that are seemingly memorized and forgotten. There's nothing one can do about it.
And yes, your definition of research is right by any standards. My point is, with an open book exam, the topics for the exam are to be restricted to the contents of the textbook. And consequently, the need for reading anything outside the textbook is reduced.
>if i can understand the concept >underlying a phenomenon by just >reading one book,y should i bother >to read from multiple sources??if >the source which i am following >cannot satisfy me,i will >automatically refer to other >sources..
The problem is, by just reading one book, if you understand the concept, you only assume you have understood the concept. Only with multiple sources will your biases, and incorrect perceptions be revealed. Of course you could always agree that you could successfully live with your misconceptions, but again, the purpose of research is defeated.
Oh, I meant argue, not agree (in the previous comment)
Anon2:
Again, you're just wrong!
"My point is, with an open book exam, the topics for the exam are to be restricted to the contents of the textbook"
No!
"The problem is, by just reading one book, if you understand the concept, you only assume you have understood the concept. Only with multiple sources will your biases, and incorrect perceptions be revealed."
One can only assume that he/she has understood the concept. And trust me, one good book many a times is enough. A Resnick is enough for JEE concepts, a Crandall is enough for SOM.
Bah, whatever. :-) I'll just go and mug.
'No!'
Well, you are right, but your 'no' should have been 'not necessarily', because if the questions are outside of the book, it doesn't make much sense to allow the book anyway, and in effect it becomes closed book, because you aren't going to be opening it in the first place.
That, and though I am surprised to hear you of all people say one book many times over is sufficient. But as you said, bah, I am not going to argue.
Anon2:
"Well, you are right, but your 'no' should have been 'not necessarily', because if the questions are outside of the book, it doesn't make much sense to allow the book anyway, and in effect it becomes closed book, because you aren't going to be opening it in the first place."
Not necessarily. :D
For an open book exam, it is the syllabus that gets fixed. So I dont understand what you mean by 'outside the book'. The prof/teacher will NEVER tell you 'the questions are from THIS book', and then allow the same book! It is up to YOU to choose a book to take that suits your comfort in answering questions/problems. For all you know, if I were to sit in an open book exam, I might just carry a sheet with formulae on it.
And I never said one book is enough. I said one good book is enough. THere's a huge difference between the two.
Ooops.. big misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't realize by open book you meant the syllabus is fixed. Where I am (NTU) the syllabus is not what is fixed, the textbook is .. good call though. In that case, yes, perhaps nothing can substiute a good hand-compiled cheat sheet.
Yes.. in most cases, one good book thoroughly prepared should be more than enough. Indeed.
>>Where I am (NTU) the syllabus is not what is fixed, the textbook is ..
er... how??
did you mean syllabus for an open-book test is not fixed, and teachers fix the book you can bring for it?
or did you mean that for your whole semester?
We had an open-book, take-home, 3-day-long end-sem exam in one of our courses last semester. It was fun.
BTW, some of the comments here seem to imply (or assume) that open-book means open-one-book. We even had a couple of open-library exams.
And could you change your settings to:
1.Display the date also, not just a useless time?
2.Full feeds for everything!
?
noooooooo.....college ;ife is fun man....2 yrs aint enough
n just imagine...if they had all 4 yrs worth quizzes in two yrs theb?
Post a Comment